107: The 30-Day Challenge: Joyce De Bakker on Writing, Fear, and Finally Hitting Publish
Joyce De Backer has reinvented herself more times than she can count — international moves, relationship endings, a corporate career that looked successful but felt like someone else's life.
In 2026, she stopped watching others succeed from the sidelines. She launched her coaching and mentoring business and gave herself a 30-day challenge: write and publish on Substack every single day — no topic list, no strategy, and no perfect plan.
In this conversation, we talk about what actually happened during those 30 days — the article that took four hours (and how she kept going!), the deeply vulnerable piece that brought her the most DMs, and the moment she realized she had more to say than she ever thought possible.
Joyce also opens up about growing up in a cult, learning to read as an act of rebellion, and how writing "like the Queen" — proper, performed, safe — kept her from hitting publish for years. She shares a couple of simple practices that changed everything: five minutes of breathing before writing, and the discipline of collapsing the time between finishing a piece and putting it out into the world before the inner critic could catch up.
In this episode:
Growing up in a cult, and what it meant to read outside its teachings
Why her writing always came out sounding like "the Queen trying to write" — and what changed
The friend, the deadline, and the fear of being left behind that sparked the 30-day challenge
What almost made her quit the writing challenge
Why she also challenged herself on Instagram video
The five-minute breathing ritual before writing, and why it worked
What daily writing surfaced about patterns she's still unlearning
Finding — and losing, and refinding — her voice after starting a business
Her advice for the woman who's mid-restart and doesn't trust herself to finish
Meet Joyce De Backer
Joyce has likely reinvented herself more than Madonna. International relocations, relationship breakdowns, walking the path less travelled — change has been the red thread running through her life.
She recently reached the end of the road in a successful corporate career, no longer recognising the woman looking back at her in the mirror. For years, fear held her back from starting a coaching business, even while she was unofficially doing the work anyway, working with many women transforming their lives through new careers, business start-ups, and gathering themselves after breakups and divorce.
This year, she finally staked her claim and said no more. She started writing, launched her official coaching and mentoring business, and chose what matters most.
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Jacqueline: [00:00:00] Welcome to How Women Write. I'm really excited for today's guest, another one who I've met in person a long time ago. So when I say a long time ago, I mean eight years. Welcome, Joyce DeBacker. I am so happy you're here
Joyce: Thank you for having
Jacqueline: me. . So we met in 2018 at a live event, and it was a year after I had left my corporate job.
Joyce: That's right.
Jacqueline: And so since then, I mean, even before then, you reinvented yourself more times than most of us can count which is fabulous, and I love it, and it's fascinating.
International moves, relationship endings, corporate career that looked great from the outside, felt like someone else from the inside. And you've said that change has been the thread running through everything. The part I love, for years you [00:01:00] were doing the work, coaching women through career pivots, business launches, the messy after state of breakups and divorce, without calling it what it was.
And this year, 2026, it all changed. You stopped waiting to feel ready, and you started writing. And I reconnected with you recently because you started writing on Substack, as part of launching your , coaching and mentoring business. And you did a 30-day challenge. Part of it was Substack, part of it was Instagram.
I do wanna get into both of that. We also discovered that we are birthday twins. We have the same birthday, but you live- Yeah ... way on the other side of the world From me. Anyway, that was a lot. Welcome, Joyce. I'd love to hear-
Joyce: Thank you ...
Jacqueline: how you're doing today, where you are physically-
Joyce: Yeah ...
Jacqueline: where you're going next.
Joyce: Well, physically I'm in Perth, Australia. So it's currently 10:00 PM now that we're [00:02:00] talking.
Jacqueline: Ooh.
Joyce: Yes. 12-hour time difference.
Jacqueline: So your 30-day- Yeah ... Substack challenge. Doing anything for 30 days can be a lot. Yes. Before we get to that, I wanna go back and talk about your writing, reading memories from growing up, like favorite teachers. Do you ... Were always reading, ?
Joyce: Yeah. So I do remember that I was obsessed with wanting to learn to read when I couldn't yet, and I was always pestering my sister to read books to me, until the moment, 'cause she obviously was getting annoyed with me.
But then I learned how to read, and that was kind of, a very pivotal moment, 'cause I got my library card, and then I was reading books like there was no tomorrow. You could always find me lying on the floor somewhere or, reading a book. Which is kind of, ... It's great actually that I did have that exposure to it because, my upbringing was not conventional.
I was born and raised in a cult, so to, for me to be able to read books [00:03:00] outside of the cult teachings was already a bit on the fringe of not acceptable. Yeah. But at least my parents allowed me to do that. And obviously reading, writing goes hand-in-hand with it. Now writing, I don't have that many memories about it, but I must have been good enough, because when I was about eight I wrote a story, a short story, and my teacher sent it into a competition, and I won third place with that story.
Jacqueline: Wow.
Joyce: So that was pretty cool, and I do remember that being at that award ceremony ... I was such a shy little girl, and I do remember being terrified of having to go up and collect my prize. And they had a table with gifts laid out, and I just chose something so stupid because I just wanted it done and over with, and I didn't really choose what I wanted.
That's the thing that I remembered is that- ... I didn't pick the prize that I really wanted. Yes. So, so writing after that I don't remember [00:04:00] much, doing much of that. I had a journal at one point when I was a kid, but then my parents read it and it got thrown out. So I always kept everything sort of in my head mostly.
And then in my adult life I didn't really start writing again. I did a lot of journaling. I've always consistently journaled throughout my life, as I got older, but I've never really purposely sat down and gone, "I'm gonna write about my life," or, "I'm gonna write short stories," or anything like that.
Jacqueline: Yeah.
.
Jacqueline: Tell us about- Yeah ... the spark for this 30-day challenge. That involves Substack, among other things. Yeah. I'd love to hear what that was.
Joyce: So at the beginning of the year, I started catching up with one of my friends regularly. She's actually also from Canada. She's near Toronto. And we both wanted to achieve quite a few things this year, so we thought we're just gonna join forces and keep each other in check.
At one point she joined Substack, and then I joined Substack. That's quite a few months [00:05:00] ago, but we didn't do anything with it. And about the end of June, she said to me, "Oh, I've set myself a challenge. I'm gonna write 36 articles in 36 days," 'cause she's gonna be 36 this year I think. And I had this feeling inside of me of- I have to do this.
I too have to write. Yeah. It was more of a fact of like I don't want someone else to shoot past me to the stars again. I've seen so many people just run with an idea and become very successful, and I've sat paralyzed in fear going, "Okay, I'm gonna do it," and then I couldn't. For, like still can't even put my finger on what that exactly was, but- Yeah
but this moment I had something, A, of I wanna do it and I can do it, so I'll set myself 30 days of writing an article a day, but also I don't want someone else shooting past me again to the stars and I'm left behind again wishing that was me.
Jacqueline: Yes. So this was the year you decided, "I've had [00:06:00] enough. I'm done
Joyce: watching."
, Yes. I'm done watching. I'm done standing on the sidelines of my life. Yeah. I just really just wanna jump in now. And it- I don't know, this year maybe astrologically or whatever is happening that, you know, and not that I let that lead my life, but I feel like I have shed so many versions of myself and have become a lot more courageous, even about speaking out, speaking up claiming more of myself as well.
Before, like years leading up to this, I've always kind of cosplayed more of what I thought, you know, a business owner should be or a writer should be. So every time I sat down to write, it never really came from the heart. I was always pretending to be someone as I was writing. So then when I read it, I sounded like, you know, the Queen kind of trying to write and teach something.
Too prim and proper. It wasn't my language, and it didn't feel right, [00:07:00] so I could never hit publish on it. Right. But something has happened this year where I just feel I write from the heart now, which I didn't even realize that that could actually happen. And it flows a lot more easily. Even when I read it back now, obviously they're not my best articles, but I can feel me in it.
It's got my essence throughout.
Jacqueline: Yes.
Joyce: Yeah.
Jacqueline: There's so much in there that I know listeners are probably nodding along with, 'cause I've heard a lot of this. I see other people being successful. Other people are doing it. Why can't I? And then you show up to the page, and you're writing this thing that sounds like a queen.
Yeah. And it's... I get it. It's like a performance. Yes. Like, I'm performing my writing for approval, and I can imagine growing up in a cult- Yes ... has a lot to do with that if not everything. Yeah. And it's like, what a beautiful process. Everything just started falling away and shedding [00:08:00] and shedding, and then what's left was you and your heart and writing from there.
Joyce: Yes.
-
Joyce: Yeah ...
Jacqueline: yeah. I'd love to hear how... So how did you get started? So you're like, "I'm gonna write on Substack." What did you do next?
Joyce: I think I said it on the Sunday or something, I can't remember now, but I started the next day. As soon as I said, "Okay, I'm gonna do this," I started the next day. And I was just naive.
I was like, "Okay, um," I just opened up a Pages document and I was like, "Okay, let's start writing." I can't even remember w- even what my first article was. That's just it. Like, now it's a blur 'cause I've done it, and it's, it's gone now. But I just wrote that first article, and I was like, "Okay, that's done now," right?
It's done. And I just- Yeah ... figured out how to post the first article. Luckily I'm pretty good with tech and it doesn't take me long to figure anything out. But I didn't want another thing to be a stumbling block of, oh, I've got to figure out my SEO, and what [00:09:00] is the best title, and what kind of hook should I be using?
I didn't want any of that. I simply wanted to write and get it out there. I think maybe even the first article didn't even have an image at first, or I didn't even put subheadings on it. I went back later and did that but at first I just- ... dumped the whole text and just hit publish.
Jacqueline: Yeah.
Joyce: I think that fear is there as well at first, where you think that everybody's going to read your article, and I had a lot of fear as well of people judging me and mocking me.
In the past I did have that. But obviously none of that happens- I know ... in real life. It's not like the brigade is there, like, "Oh my God, your first article," and, you know, trolls are showing up. None of that happens. It's actually very anti-climatic in a way, because everything that you build it up to be in your head doesn't happen.
Jacqueline: Yes.
Joyce: Yeah.
Jacqueline: I love how you started so much, for so many reasons. You just started, and the advice sounds cliché, [00:10:00] like, just get started. Just do it. You actually did that. What it sounds like you did not do, correct me if I'm wrong, you didn't make a list of all the topics you're gonna write about. No. You didn't think about your content pillars.
You didn't... You said you didn't think about hooks or titles or SEO. That is so good, and I'm so glad. And that's how I started blogging too, 'cause if I- Yeah ... did the other s- I didn't know what SEO was when I started blogging, so- Exactly ... that probably helped, but I love that. I also wanna hear... 'Cause, like, so you did one.
Joyce: Yes
Jacqueline: Like, how did you feel once that was out, once the fear subsided or the voices calmed down?
Joyce: Like hid under a doona. The good thing was I did it every day in the evening, 'cause I still have a full-time job, so daytime's work, and then I wrote after work. And I actually figured out that that was the best time to write, but it was definitely sort of...
I think the first article did take me quite a while, to get it to a, a posting worthy, [00:11:00] thread. But yeah, I just posted it, and luckily I could go to bed after that, and I thought, "Okay, I can go to bed. I'll just sleep it off. Whatever happens overnight happens."
But what happened-
Jacqueline: Yeah, what did you do after? Once you published. I- You went to sleep- Yeah ... so that's great. I'm glad you did. So I
Joyce: went to sleep, yes.
Jacqueline: Did you sleep that night? And then
Joyce: the next morning, yeah, the next morning I just thought, "Okay, well, I've got the next one to do today."
I didn't really worry about it too much. Again, I didn't really think about like, "Oh, what should today's topic be?" I just figured it would come when I start writing. I think even that one, the next one just came out quite easily and I just wrote. I think I just took any expectation of it needing to be great off the table, because I knew it wasn't going to be, and perfectionism has stopped me so many times of getting anything out there whatsoever.
So I just knew, write, just look it over, edit a little bit, and then just get it out. That's it. Just do it.
Jacqueline: Yeah. That is so good. I love as well that you jumped in day two- [00:12:00] And wrote it in the evening
...
Jacqueline: And you weren't obsessing over topics or, like- No ... you just went about your life, and when it was time to write, you sat down and you wrote.
Joyce: I sat
Jacqueline: down. No drama. Yeah.
Joyce: No drama, yes. Yeah, and even... 'Cause what I also do is I'm house-sitting, so I go from property to property, so the internet is not always great, and there's- Yeah ... the places where I sit, 'cause not everyone has got an office with a desk handy either, so I just sit wherever I can sit.
So some of these articles were written on the couch or at a kitchen bench or, sitting outside looking out over a garden. I just switched it up quite a bit wherever they were getting written. That, that was it. But I didn't wanna stress about topics or what you said, like sit down and like, "What am I gonna do now?"
'Cause I knew that if I started doing that, I would change my voice again. I would just start thinking more about, like, what do, how should this sound, or, how am I gonna word this for it to be a lesson or some- something like [00:13:00] that. .
Jacqueline: Yes. So did you have a goal other than publish every day for 30 days?
Joyce: No other goal.
Jacqueline: That's
Joyce: it. That was it.
Jacqueline: That's great.
Joyce: It consumed me for 30 days.
Jacqueline: When did you find your groove? When were you like, "I got this"? It felt like they flowed pretty early.
Joyce: Yeah, I think from about five, article five to seven, I kind of thought, "Hang, hang on a second. I have got plenty to write about.
There's so much I can write about." I think before that as well, I always thought that my life was boring or that I couldn't write about certain topics or you know that it was off limits. But nothing is really off limits, and some of these articles were pretty vulnerable, and things came out that I thought, "Oh, wow, I never even thought that this was going to come."
But I also thought it also has to go out. Some of them I felt very vulnerable, as I said, but I just thought it still has to go out. I can't keep this back now. It's done. It's written. It must go out.
Jacqueline: [00:14:00] Yeah.
Joyce: So yes, again, don't overthink it. Just get it out.
Jacqueline: Yes. Yeah. I love that so much. Were there any that were challenging to write?
Joyce: Yes. There was a few actually that were challenging to write, and I can't now ex- exactly remember which article it was. But one day I sat down, and I think I wrote about four different things at the start, and I just kept writing and writing and writing.
And then another topic came about, and I started writing about that because nothing was really flowing. But I knew if I walked away that I wouldn't sit back down again. It was that one moment where I just thought, "If I now walk away, I think this is my quitting point, so I have to sit down." This is the moment where I could go, "Oh, I've got nothing else that I really could put out there."
Perhaps I was getting too much in my head about, oh, what do people wanna read now, or is this too much or not good enough? So I think in the end, then all of a sudden it did come out, but I think I spent about four, four and a half hours that day just trying-
...
Joyce: To get it on paper. Well, [00:15:00] paper.
Jacqueline: Yeah.
Joyce: It's- I
Jacqueline: get it ... on screen.
Joyce: Yeah.
Jacqueline: But you got through it. You sat- Yes ... in the uncomfortable resistance and-
Joyce: Yes ...
Jacqueline: showed up.
Joyce: Just pushed through.
Jacqueline: Yes. I love that. Were there any essays that particularly surprised, or the response you got to particular essays, did anything surprise you?
You're like, "Wow," "that's the one you guys liked?"
Joyce: Yeah. There isn't one in particular. I did get a few private messages about the one that I wrote about my secret eating and secret binge eating- ... that people said, "Oh, I recognize myself in that," which is very ... 'Cause that was probably one of my most vulnerable articles that I wrote, something I've struggled with my whole life.
And, what came out of that as I was writing it came through to me that it makes me feel powerful to do that when I can get away with something.
Jacqueline: Ah.
Joyce: It gives me this sense of feeling [00:16:00] superior through it, while also being extremely damaging to my health and myself.
Jacqueline: Yeah.
Joyce: You know? So that one was pretty hard to read back and a- also pretty hard to publish.
But I got the most kind of private messages about that one, people saying, "I recognize myself in that, and I didn't even realize when I read your words, I felt the exact same thing. That's something that I do, too, and how I feel about it."
Jacqueline: Yeah. I love that so much about the vulnerability of writing and sharing that-
Joyce: Yeah
Jacqueline: and it goes back to what you were initially worried about being in your head, people are gonna have all these things to say. But really, what people are looking for is connection, and you sparked something in a lot of those people by the stories you told, and it helped ... you were holding up a mirror, and they were- Yes
reflecting, and you gave them that opportunity.
Joyce: Yeah. [00:17:00] But that has been great, because I have made some really nice connections on Substack, actually.
Jacqueline: Yeah.
Joyce: And because everyone on there is there to read articles and to write. And just people have reached out here and there, and I think, "Oh, this is actually a really cool platform to be on."
Jacqueline: Yeah ... Substack for that, and I think it's such a ... It is a great place to get started, because it's a friendly place that's writers- Yeah ... supporting other writers. Whereas pre-Substack days, you imagine writing on your website. You put a blog on your website- You don't really know exactly who read it.
You gotta tell people about it. Yeah. So you have to spread it with social media, where Substack is its own ecosystem. Yeah. So I love that you discovered that. You also did something else. Was it videos that you were creating daily?
Joyce: Yeah, so I then I just kind of made it hand-in-hand. So I set myself another challenge to sh- show up on Instagram for 30 days and post videos.
I actually was gonna go live for 30 days on Instagram, but because my [00:18:00] follower count is so low they won't allow you to go live on Instagram. Oh,
Jacqueline: really?
Joyce: Yes. I didn't
Jacqueline: know that.
Joyce: It is. So apparently with the newer accounts that you create, 'cause I created a new account for this kind of- Oh, okay ... the business account.
You have to have 1,000 followers before you can go live, and I was like, "Oh, okay." So yeah. So then I, I- The realities ... yes. I had to then start recording videos and posting them, which was fine. It was another thing where I just wanted to get over that threshold of it's got to be perfect, it's gotta be good, I have to have makeup on, I can't be wearing my glasses, and I have to be dressed up. I just wanted to get the videos out there, or I have to have the perfect message. , It was just another thing for me to stop that fear or stop that, the voices in my head being so critical, because that's what's stopped me so many times in the past, is where the voices in my head are just like it's, "You're ugly.
You can't say that. You don't have anything to say. Nobody will read it." It was just getting over another hurdle basically, and doing [00:19:00] it at the same time felt-
Jacqueline: Yeah ...
Joyce: felt like it could work. I didn't actually complete the full 30 days, I don't think. Sometimes I just felt Like I was diluting myself a little bit by also being over there.
So I don't feel like that was a failure, so to speak, that I didn't go on there for 30 days straight. But I don't feel any hesitations now to post videos on there. I'm like, "Oh, yes, whatever." Again, nobody comes out of the woodwork trolling you or laughing at you or anything because, you know, my account is small, so nobody does that.
I think that only happens when you've got thousands of followers and people sp- start expecting things from you, I guess.
Jacqueline: Yes. Yeah, I, oh, I can see that as being a reason why so many people are afraid to show up, whether it's Substack or Instagram or video, putting themselves out there, because they see these accounts with millions of followers.
They say one thing that someone doesn't like, and then all the trolls are out. And that's [00:20:00] rare. It is ... that doesn't actually happen that much. And- No ... some people don't even start because they're worried that that's gonna happen to them.
Joyce: Yeah. And that was a lot of what held me back over the years, is just that I would...
yeah, the judgment of other people, which is really the judgment I had over myself.
Jacqueline: Right.
Joyce: I judged my own work to the Nth degree, so I thought everybody was judging me like that.
Jacqueline: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Was there any point in the 30 days on Substack that you considered quitting?
Joyce: Yeah, there was that one article where it just took me a while to get started and having to go through all these different topics to land on something.
But really quitting, once I got kind of in the groove of things, I was having fun with it, and I was enjoying myself.
So I think if it was a struggle every single day, I may not have lasted, but it just... I started thinking of [00:21:00] myself as a writer. I'm like, "Oh, I'm, I'm a writer now."
Jacqueline: Yes.
I love that.
Joyce: So, so yes, I didn't really feel like that again, to quit.
Jacqueline: Good.
.
Jacqueline: . I'm curious, this might feel like a boring thing to answer, but I think a lot of people also wonder about what the daily, like, what the writing actually looked like. So you opened up Pages, like explain- Yes ... it to someone like they're five.
You opened up Pages, you wrote. Did you step away and come back? Did you just write one draft and publish? What did-
Joyce: I
Jacqueline: just- ... the process look like?
Joyce: Yeah, so I just literally sat down, opened up a page, gave it some type of title. It generally started with a date, and then it was like day X of X, no title obviously until I started.
But then I would just sit down, and that was it. I had to get in the zone. I actually adopted your five minutes of breathing before articles- ... which helped me to kind [00:22:00] of clear my mind and switch off from work to writing.
Jacqueline: Yes.
Joyce: But yes, I would just write it all, go over it one time. Maybe I would walk away, c- make a cup of tea, then come back to it, but I didn't let too much time go in between it, so I didn't wanna start doubting myself, and that's why when I go back now, I see so many spelling mistakes.
I did run it through AI, like through Claude, and just go, "Can you just look at the grammar and the spelling mistakes?" But then sometimes it ended up just being whatever it was and me just posting it. Yeah. And that was it. So there wasn't really much thought or structure to it. It was just get it done.
That's the end. That's it. That's all I needed to do, was just get it done.
Jacqueline: I love it. That's it. Get it done, get it out. Yeah. I find spelling mistakes in my stuff later all the time. Yeah. And sometimes I don't even fix them. I'm like, "Oh, there's a mistake." Nobody notices. No. Most people do not notice, and if they do, they don't care.
Joyce: That's true.
Jacqueline: The five-minute technique that you're [00:23:00] referring to, just for listeners to understand, simply before you begin writing, five minutes- Do nothing. Sit and breathe and just land. I've experimented in the past with my writing community with, like, let's do five minutes of journaling.
Let's do free writing or a prompt. And that's fine too, but sometimes , and especially I think because you were doing your writing at the end of the day, it's the end of the workday, it's evening. Five minutes to land and transition to go from daytime Joyce to put on your writer hat, and it's five minutes to just be present and then write.
I've heard a lot of people enjoyed it, so I'm really happy to hear that it worked for you too.
Joyce: Yeah. It works very well, actually. Because, yeah, sometimes there's no switch off point and especially when I'm working from home or whatever, I'm already kind of in that mode. And then getting into the writing mode it just was like a nice little break in [00:24:00] between, but also not too long that I wouldn't wanna sit down anymore and, and , do the thing that I set out to do.
Jacqueline: Yeah. Yeah. What would you say to someone who's considering to start writing, sharing their voice, or even speaking, 'cause I see them as very similar?
She wants to start, or maybe she stopped and wants to restart. What would you say to her?
Joyce: It's really like what you say so many times, just write. You say that all the time in your content as well, and but it is really true.
It's really considering that everything that you fear is going to happen, maybe that would work is actually write down what you fear is going to happen, and realistically look at it and think, "Is this really true?" 'Cause I do think I've done that sort of over the beginning months of this year was, like, putting my fears down.
I was like, "Is this really true?" Like, none of this is probably going to happen.
And take that pressure out of it. Just sit down, [00:25:00] start writing, and get it out. Just collapse that time between when you take the action and then the publishing. Don't let any time in between that to sit there and ruminate and start thinking critically about it and judging yourself or judging your work.
Don't do it. Just as soon as you've written, publish. Do it. And then it's gone. It's out into the world, and you can step back and maybe do it at night and then go to bed s- so you can sleep and don't worry about it anymore, that you don't walk around all day thinking about it. But you have to collapse that moment of time between where your critical mind comes out and then starts judging everything.
Yeah. I think that would be the advice that I would give myself, the exact same thing. Just collapse that time between. Yeah.
Jacqueline: Yeah, I love that, and advice that we give ourselves is often the advice that people need to hear too. I also love this coming from you because you're a Virgo, and many Virgos can get wrapped up in perfectionism- and trying to get things just right and can [00:26:00] sometimes be hard on themselves. So I think- Yeah ... seeing you work through it is such a great example for others. I just love that. What's been the perhaps biggest area of growth you've experienced, whether it's personally or professionally after doing this challenge?
Joyce: I feel a lot more confident in myself. And so many things have gone through the surface through writing that I Had sort of swirling in my awareness, but then came to the forefront. So I've uncovered quite a few things which are big things. Um, for example, the fact that in my imagination I will live out the goals that I wanna achieve, and then they're absolutely perfect, so then when I chase them, reality is vastly different than my imagination.
Then generally I give up because it doesn't feel the same, or I've already achieved it, so why would I still do it in real life? And [00:27:00] that was, like, a major one that came through for me. But also I feel that my energy is different, and that I'm a lot more open to receiving compliments and feedback in a way that I now accept it.
Before, I would deflect it and say people were lying to me, and that they were just saying that because they have to say it, that something is good or they enjoyed it. I never really thought that people were genuine about that, whereas now I don't have that. I feel like genuinely people give me a compliment about my writing, and I say, "Oh, that's so wonderful.
Thank you very much." I believe it myself now.
Jacqueline: Good. S-
Joyce: and I don't have any hesitations to sit down and write. I've set myself now kind of, obviously after the 30 days, I felt a little bit burnt out 'cause it did take a lot out of me, and then I pulled back to one article a week. But I do feel now that I've got one article a week, I feel like I'm holding myself back a little bit, 'cause I'm like, "Oh, yeah, but we can only write one article a [00:28:00] week now."
Jacqueline: I was just gonna ask how you were handling what's next. I mean, not that you need it, but permission to write two a week if you've got two in you, but-
I'm curious , ... how did your rhythm change now?
Joyce: So I wanna sit down every day and write, and I'm actually not doing it, and I want to bring it back because I felt freer when I wrote every day.
And the last couple of articles after the challenge ended, I've gotten in my head a little bit too much about it, because now I've started a business. So now it's gotta all have to do something with the business, and I feel like it's not landing as much unless I let myself be creative and be free.
It doesn't roll as much because I'm just trying to focus and pinpoint it on down a certain route. . And that's, yeah, it's taken my spontaneity out of it, and a bit of my voice out of it. So I noticed that on Sunday when I hit publish, and I was like, "Oh, this is not, this doesn't feel as good," because I didn't [00:29:00] allow myself to roam.
Jacqueline: Yes.
.
Jacqueline: I get that. I see that. And- It's interesting 'cause when we put business owner hat on, we think, "Okay, I have to teach. This has to be useful and practical," and all these things. When really, and having been in business 10, 11 years, the stuff that people resonate with, and even attracts clients, is the stuff that is not about, , air quotes, business.
It's the personal stories. It's a, a growth and experience. ... It was such a good reminder for me, so I hope listeners feel this too, that yes, it's cliche. You are enough, your writing is enough, your stories are enough, and we don't have to, , do business owner writing kind of thing.
And we love the personal stuff, and it, yes, you can weave business in and the lessons, and I think it takes [00:30:00] time to find the balance so that it feels like it's fun again, and it feels like it's flowing like it did for you before
Joyce: Yes. Yeah. So I think ... I'm gonna take that off the table going forward, because I will still wanna have fun in my writing, and it doesn't need to be a particular thing or have that particular focus, because I've had a very rich life in things that have happened and yeah, some
Like, even one of the articles where, I think it's Do You Speak My Language, about learning English-
...
Joyce: And moving to Australia when I'd just turned 20, and that whole experience, I did get a lot of reactions to that where people said, "Oh my God, that was such a fun article," and, "I got so much out of that."
And ... People were just like, "Oh, it just gave me permission to be bad at something. It was funny to read it, like how terrible it was at first, but then it turned out to be okay." So yeah, it's things that land that I don't think will land, but then that's how people [00:31:00] connect with you. So yeah, I, I agree with you.
I just want to, I just wanna be playful again, and I just don't wanna have an agenda with it, and whatever happens happens to it. But I just want to keep writing, because I'm having a lot of fun with it. And, you know, I think it was about 2017, 2018 maybe as well I had my natal chart reading done, and this astrologer just kept pestering me saying, "Y- are you writing?
You must be writing 'cause you've got Mercury in Libra." And she said, "I hope you are writing a book. Are you writing?" And I felt so pressured, and I was like, "I'm not, I'm not writing. I have nothing to write about." And she just could not let it go that whole session. She kept saying, "You, you have to start writing.
Your writing is gonna help a lot of people. You have to do it."
Jacqueline: Yeah.
Joyce: So that keeps, like, in the back of my head that it'd take me, like, obviously eight or nine years longer than perhaps what she wanted, but finally I'm sitting down to write, and I'm enjoying it, and I'm having a great time. So whenever you [00:32:00] start and whenever you hit publish is the time that you have to start, I guess.
It's, that's when the time is right. Yeah. So luckily I finally picked myself up and gathered the courage to just do it.
Jacqueline: Good. I'm so glad you did. I had goosebumps as you said that. Mercury in Libra, of course. I think my Mercury's in Libra too.
Yep, it's in Libra.
Joyce: Is it?
Jacqueline: We probably have a lot of planets in similar signs- I do think- ... because we share a birthday ...
Joyce: probably. But you were probably born at the end of the day, were you?
Jacqueline: Yeah.
Joyce: For you to be a Libra? Yeah.
Jacqueline: Yeah, when I had my chart read, I think I told you for the longest time I thought I was a Virgo till I had my chart read- Yes
in 2017-ish, around there.
Joyce: Yeah.
Jacqueline: I thought I was for the longest time. And then I was talking to someone last week, because I'm a zero degree Libra-
Joyce: Oh ...
Jacqueline: she sees that as like I really wanted to be a Libra, where I would like held on and I found out I was two weeks late, and I was like-
Joyce: Yeah ...
Jacqueline: I need to be a Libra.
So [00:33:00] it's zero degrees. I do have a lot of planets in Virgo.
Joyce: Yeah. 'Cause I'm 29 degrees Virgo.
Jacqueline: Okay. So, yeah.
Joyce: Yeah.
Jacqueline: Yeah, and I'm zero degree Libra, so I'm one degree- Just right ... later than you. Jumped over that is so wild. And I mean, so if you had've been born in another place, 'cause I was born in the Eastern time zone- Yeah
like- Yeah ... so wild. I just love that. That is cool. Thank you for going down that rabbit hole with me.
Joyce: Any time.
Jacqueline: I love that. Joyce, this has been such a great conversation, and I'm really... I'm trusting that these words, your stories hit the right person, and the one who started a Substack or wanted a subs- start a Substack or wherever they want to write really doesn't matter, and I hope they just start or restart.
'Cause y- you really showed how easy and drama-free it can be.
Joyce: Yeah. After all of that, after all of those years of having so much drama and [00:34:00] anguish and anxiety about it, it actually turned out to be probably one of the easiest things I have ever done.
Jacqueline: That's amazing. Yes. The easiest thing you've ever done.
And just one final question I'd love to ask. I know you mentioned that you would sit down with a cup of tea. What kind of tea did you usually like to drink while you're writing?
Joyce: I like a good cup of English breakfast tea, but I switched to chamomile tea not so long ago because I felt too strung out.
So I'm now drinking chamomile tea, which I kind of like. It's good. Yes.
Jacqueline: And I can imagine you didn't want the caffeine at bedtime.
Joyce: No, I didn't. "Let me have
Jacqueline: a cup of tea right before bed."
Joyce: Yes.
Jacqueline: That makes so much more sense. Oh my gosh. Yes. Thank you so much, Joyce. We will link to your Substack, of course, in the show notes, and- Thank you
I'm excited to continue to read-
Joyce: Thank you ... the
Jacqueline: joyful writing that is yet to [00:35:00]
Joyce: come. Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you for all your support. It's like, it was so lovely to get your comments on my posts and, you know, it just, sometimes it just gave me that little push in the back to go like, "Oh, okay. This is great."
So yeah, thank you. It's been great. You're
Jacqueline: so welcome. They are genuine. Like, I don't- Yeah ... comment on anyone's stuff that I'm not feeling, 'cause I can't be inauthentic. So also a reminder, listeners, if you're reading someone's stuff and not commenting, leave a little comment.
It really makes a difference.
Joyce: Yes.
Jacqueline: Thank you so much for being here, Joyce.
Joyce: Thank you.
