102: Joanna Penn on Voice, Creativity, and Building a 40-Book Career as an Intuitive Author-Entrepreneur
My guest today is a fellow INFJ who built a writing and business empire from her keyboard — and she did it by trusting her intuition over anyone's idea of what a "proper" writer looks like. As Joanna Penn, she writes practical, generous nonfiction that has made The Creative Penn one of the most trusted resources for authors in the world. It’s my favorite podcast on the craft and business of writing!
As J.F. Penn, she writes dark thrillers built on copious research, religious relics, anatomy, museums, and graveyards … and her body of work is seriously impressive, with over 40 books and over a million copies sold in 176 countries. Instead of picking a lane (or genre), she built a business and a creative life that deliver both.
Joanna's been one of the most thoughtful, AI-positive voices in the author space, and I truly appreciate it. Most importantly, she is clear on her author voice and is genuinely working through what the technology means for writers. She calls herself an "AI-assisted artisan author," and I want to be clear about what that does and doesn't mean: this isn't a label for the last twenty years of her career or that she’s cranking out books written by AI. No. It's how she's naming the next chapter in her career. AI has changed how she researches, plans, and runs the business around the words — and she's refreshingly honest and optimistic about where that line sits.
We talked about the teacher who told her at eleven to "write something nice" — and how long it took to write her way back to the dark stuff she actually loved. We talked about her fifth novel, the one where she finally stopped censoring herself and found her real voice. We also talked about why fiction and nonfiction ask completely different things of her, how her intuition tells her which book to write next, and what it looks like to bring AI into an established creative life without losing an ounce of what makes her sound like her.
If any part of you has been waiting for permission to trust what you already know and start — this is it.
Key Takeaways:
Intuition can be your business strategy, not just your creative process. Joanna describes an "intuitive sense" of what book she needs to write next — and she listens to it, even when the entrepreneur in her has a more strategic idea.
You don't have to choose one creative identity. You can build a system that holds many. Joanna writes practical nonfiction as Joanna Penn and fiction as J.F. Penn. They're two different creative muscles, each with its own time block, energy, and audience.
Your "real" voice might not show up until book five. Joanna didn't find hers until Desecration, her fifth novel — where she stopped writing what she thought a "proper" book should be and focused on writing what she truly loved. If your first book doesn’t feel like you yet — keep writing.
Fiction and nonfiction require different kinds of energy. She describes fiction as decision-fatigue-heavy, every character choice a choice, while nonfiction pours out because she already knows it.
Being an author-entrepreneur means diversifying, not compromising. Between book royalties, podcast ads, and a Patreon, Joanna built multiple income streams around her writing instead of relying on one book to carry her whole business.
Connect with Joanna:
Joanna Penn's website: thecreativepenn.com
Joanna's podcast: The Creative Penn Podcast
Fiction Books at J.F. Penn.com
Connect with Jacqueline Fisch:
Timestamps:
00:00 Meet Joanna Penn
01:35 Bookish Childhood Roots
03:30 The Wound and Shadow
05:20 Leaving IT for Writing
09:01 Author Entrepreneur Income
11:58 First Book Hard Lessons
16:51 Breaking into Fiction
20:57 Relics Research and Readers
23:22 Spiritual Seeking and Writing
26:05 Fiction Burnout Reset
29:06 Urgent Book Pull
31:38 Time Blocking System
34:19 Energy And Flexibility
36:00 Rituals And Real Work
38:13 Finding Author Voice
40:47 AI-Assisted Author
46:14 Recharging And Drinks
48:52 Five Minute Start
